Tuesday, June 27, 2006

glory hunters

Some blokes weren't too pleased with my last post. Apparently some people may do 'community service' and help out with charities. So apparently, they claim that they are doing their part.

So what?

You help out with charity or do community service because you WANT TO. Do you expect an award? Are you a Rotarian (or a Kiwanian or a Leo) just because of the name and the 'prestige' that goes along with it? Did you expect glory to be heaped upon you for your demi-god contribution to society?

If you think you have done your part in making this country a better place to live, think again - you haven't. Community service can never be complete. I personally have the biggest beef with the condition of kids these days. Top scorers who can't hack it. Model students who are judged on nothing but their grades.

But I try to fix those problems. My work will never be complete. I work with one batch of students and I would like to think that they have learnt to look beyond their books, but the following year, another batch of students come in and I have to start from scratch again.

I never demand a trophy. I never dream of recognition. I do it because I want a change in the way things are. If I sat on my arse all day complaining about the inadequecies of the MoE, I wouldn't be able to get anything done. Some people offer no solutions. Some people offer no remedies. All they do is complain about the injustices that befall them. And true to nature, they complain when people like me appear and ask them to make a difference.

Just yesterday, I asked a friend to bin his trash at McDs. While he argued, another friend of mine did it for him. Make out what you wish out of it.

And you know, the most irritating assholes are the ones that are overseas and moaning about the state of their country. Do you want me to fix it for you and make everything nice and dandy so you can enjoy the spoils when you return? Would you like me to roll out a red carpet for you to come home when that is done?

The best part of it all - everybody moans that I have something to gain out of supporting this government. You're goddamn right I have something to gain. This is my fucking country! I have all to gain! I don't care if it is the current government in charge or in the future the current opposition takes power. The point is to stop moaning and get your butt moving.


Err.. I didn't think it was that big a deal lor.. :)

These glory hunters you are talking about - these people didn't demand recognition.

The only reason why people cited doing 'charity' was because you made it sound that these people overseas are not doing anything.

There are two separate problems you are talking about here:

1. people who grumble vs. people who don't grumble
2. people who offer solutions vs. ppl who don't

You are confusing explicit issue number one. You generalize and compartmentalize everyone that grumbles to be those that do not offer solutions, while advocating the alternative don't grumble but offer solutions.

Unfortunately, overseas students aren't as simple as that. No one is.

You over-generalize, hastily draw inferences, incorrectly associate, appeal to emotion and knock characters. You use anecdotes as evidence to support your case.

Ok. This is your blog, your platform. But you have opened up a platform for debate.

If you are incapable of understanding the logical fallacies you have been committing, it's such a waste on your UK education. How could you be so simple-minded?

*Proud to be an overseas student, who grumbles, and would like to think offers solutions.


Glory hunters are those that 'support' a football team but have never been to the ground.

These? They just want to fit in.

I do agree with people overseas moaning about their home country, wtf if it bothers you don't be a pussy and try and fix it, don't run away.


I couldnt damn hell agree more , Thats the problem with people nowadays .. Life's like having cirit birit. Cause no matter what .. Shit happens , and they would rather complain about how dirty their ass is and all the kulat in their ass instead of just wiping their ass. Sorry for the weird analogy

You don't demand recognition, yet you devote a blog tacitly advertising the things you're doing to 'help make Malaysia better'

C'mone lah dude, don't jia jia (pretend).

The truth of the matter is that everyone craves at least a bit of recognition for their efforts. That's just human nature. Denying that will only make you a hypocrite.


And P.S.: vincent, acting all cynical and disillusional, and being very liberal with your f**ks, and b**ches, contrary to what you might think, doesn't make you oh so 'cool'. Sorry to shatter your preception of yourself :)

P.P.S. I am amazed how many times I've seen Malaysian youth blogs and such utilising the word 'disillusioned' in it. And speak of the devil! I scrolled down your blog, and voila! I see that word yet again :) Have I just missed some new fad among the Malaysian youth blogs? Instead of sounding so cynically mature (as what some people seem to think), this excessive demonstration of how 'depressed' and 'disillusioned' one is is starting to sound very tired and cliche. Passe even.


I am drunk and disillusioned. I declared jihad against oversea moaners.

So much green fanta gets exported; I fear there might be a shortage in Malaysia real soon.

vincent i think you have missed a point here. but before i start i will make the reasonable assumption that the people you refer to who say that they do charity etc did not in any way demand recognition but just made the remark. just like how you are here:

"But I try to fix those problems. My work will never be complete. I work with one batch of students and I would like to think that they have learnt to look beyond their books, but the following year, another batch of students come in and I have to start from scratch again."

you are in no way asking for a trophy. but you are speaking of how you are doing your part to make our country a better place. should we use your reasoning then you are a glory hunter as well.

in relation to you supporting the government, i cannot agree as well. if our problems were caused by a lack of resources or something out of our control i would agree with you. however, our problems are caused by the individuals who form the government, being it laziness, corruption or just plain stupidity (although stupidity is out of their control as well).

but i must say that i cannot stand people who do charity for purposes of recognition or publicity. my biggest problem here is with the rotary club. i think about a quarter of their funds go to expensive dinners and meetings. all this money can be channeled to better uses.

i also do not like people who announce that they give RMxx to X charity every month. if you are sincere in giving, then it need not be made public. you do it for self-satisfaction, not for praise.

on the same token, if you do whatever it is you do with your students to make this country a better place sincerely, you should not be announcing that you do it. shouldn't it be sufficient for you to know that you are doing your part? unless of course you want attention or praise that is...

but i have been reading your blog for some time now and i will give you the benefit of the doubt for now. i know what any of your readers think of you does not matter to you but this is just how i feel.


You people are NUTS.

Suddenly the table gets turned because I gave an example? Because I ASK that you do something for your country? Because I tell you there are loads of things you can do to make a difference?

If you are a parent, would you be hypocritical if you taught your kids not to lie?

Fucking nutters, you lot.


your example is off target vincent. a parent teaching their kid not to lie is equivalent to you telling us to do something good for our country, which i did not criticise.

what i did criticise is the fact that in 1 paragraph you insult those you in your words "give an example" of what they do for our country, and in the next para, you yourself "give an example" of what you are doing.

i think everybody sees it other than you.

your advice in telling us what we can do for our country is all well and good. no one is saying that there is anything wrong with that. but what you did was wrong. it is like a parent lying to someone in front of their kids and then turning to their kids and saying, kids, don't lie.


Vincent... STFU... go back home and sleep... Maybe when you wake up, the world would be a better place. If not.. then thats just too bad... Live with the fact that some ppl are just stupid and some aren't. The less you know, the better you'd feel...

iii: Wrong. The people I mentioned said they had the right to complain because they did all those community service stuffs.

Jesus. Complain only. You are no different from the people you are dissing.

you know, people, i don't think it's nice to bag someone for making a clear point. though not *that* clearly, i do believe he does make a valid argument against people who think like that; the people who expect something like recognition/fame/etc for giving to charity. (at least thats what i'm led to believe he's talking about).

NOW i've read the last post's comments and this post's. while i do think it's fair to judge people who just 'complain and do nothing', i think it's rather unfair that it's done so without properly understanding. you see, you have to realize and, more importantly, understand the people that are doing the complaining; the majority (it seems) of these people being (quote.unquote) 'overseas malaysians'.

let's break it down - overseas malaysians are normally people who have left the country because of many reasons, suffice to say. but one of the main reasons they leave is because of unequal opportunity. i.e, unfair educational opportunity for one. they are forced (or not) to leave in the INTEREST OF SELF PRESERVATION. they want better things for themselves, understandably, and that is why they leave this (they would deem) hellhole. of course when you leave your homecountry out of self preservation, it would probably indicate that there is something wrong with your homecountry. in this case, that something wrong is ... everything.

lets use an example that everyone would be familiar with; overseas students. they go overseas because they can't get a place in local universities (or because it's crap. it's arbitrary). they go overseas in the interest of self preservation. they want to get good jobs and make a good living. they know they can't change the local education system which is why they leave. they go. of course they go complaining and moaning, but they go. NOW, we've already discussed that things cannot change immediately. they take time. if we are to changes things, it will take time - yes? but in cases where change is needed immediately, like in this case of education, how are they supposed to function when that change is not immediately provided? what alternatives do they have? they want high-paying jobs etc., but do not have the opporunities to do so in malaysia. that is WHY they complain. AND what can they do about it? of course they could do stuff that could trigger a start, but it is not immediate. and what they seek is immediate, because if they don't seek a place in a good university in time, they are stuck with a low paying job and low quality of life which they do not want (and in all fairness, you're allowed to want what you want - do not impose your values on other people i.e, 'as long can eat, good enough already lah - why want mercedes?'. be tolerant people. we are trying to cultivate this 'first world' mentality, after all nu? =). savvy?

sometimes, there is a need for immediacy. sure i agree with a bunch of commentors here that we live in an age of instant gratification, but dudes, what about the instances that need immediate changes? corruption needs to be changed IMMEDIATELY - agreed? but it will take awhile - and until then, people WILL invariably complain till it is changed. that is their nature, you cannot stop it. it AFFECTS their livelihood, their way of life - do they not have the right to complain?

of course, the issue of doing something in lieu of complain is debateable. sure some people complain more (in malaysia, it's 'most'), some people do instead - but that's just human nature. you have to understand that not all people have the resolve to change things. from history, we realize the people with the strongest resolves are the ones who go to jail for their beliefs; mandela, aung san suu kyi and others. these people are very strong people. it would seem that malaysians would not even have half of suu kyi's resolve to change things, from what is being blogged here in this blog and elsewhere. if everyone were like these iconic people, wouldn't the world be a better place? wouldn't malaysia have this 'first class' (i use this term sparingly) mentality?

i call for change as well. i hate people who just sit on their asses and complain but do nothing. i would make arguments for people who do not want to change (and continuing bribing) but there are tons of people who are like that and it would have to assume/generalize (and we all hate assuming/generalizing, because it's not very 'first class' yes?). i agree that change will take time. but you should not bag people like vincent for writing what they believe in and showing examples (not anecdotes, as Anon at June 28, 2006 1:04 AM has said.). i applaud his actions, albeit small. he believes in something and i think that is admirable. i absolutely can not believe the insinuations made in comments that he is looking for recognition by stating these examples when it's rather obvious he is just trying to make a point (though quite poorly, i'm afraid).

this is my last paragraph. jfk once said 'ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.'. i believe that people who complain, discuss and whine and subsequently do not do anything would be well advised to take jfk's words. if you're reading this, i hope you've read it in earnest. but seeing as i've typed such an obnoxiously long comment, i doubt you would have. and i am an overseas malaysian, so hey, another impetus for not reading my obnoxiously long comment in earnest. =)


jfk said that????!!??????!!??

Better to be able to recognise the problem and complain than not to be able to see it and keep quiet.

Community service is fun. It's what you make of it, actually. Nobody really needs a reward. Damn if you do. A simple thank you from the recipient is good enough.

I believe in your baby steps in improving the country's state. I think what is needed is education lah. These idiots won't dump their trays or return their supermarket carts mainly because they have no civic conciousness. If 100 people helped change 1 person every day... from 1 bad habit to a good one, and make sure THEY pass it on, we would be moving forward like nobody's business.

Overseas students love Malaysia. The ones that don't have no Malaysian friends mainly because nobody wants to talk to posers :P Those posers half the time will end up having some mixed identity crisis later on, not belonging anywhere.
Kids overseas tend to preserve the Malaysian culture amongst their peers and in their colleges/universities too. For those not in the know, you guys should see the Malaysian Nights and Festivals celebrated overseas. The number of Malaysian restaurants getting so much business even though their food is below mediocre. I used to bitch to my friends that I wanna get outta the "Penang shithole" :P but being away does promote a sense of nationalism.

Some Malaysians don't return to M'sia, because they're Muslim and their (other religion) significant others' refuse to follow them back to Malaysia due to the need to convert.
Most of the time, people don't return or give up their citizenship without being given a fair choice. However much they love M'sia, they can't achieve their dreams (quality of life, job, salary, marriage, religious freedom, ethnic/racial equality, whatever) there. So really, many of them WANT to be in M'sia but they simply CAN'T without sacrificing their future happiness. To quote the M'sian film Gubra, "How can you love a country who doesn't love you back?" (or something to that effect)

And I don't mean to raise a 2nd argument due to that quote, but yes, the good ones will always come back after getting the significant work experience to help their country.


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